“Telenedelya
VLD Press”,
December 4, 1997
ICONOGRAPHER FROM
In the official list of all different and good
professions the iconographer is missing.
However iconographers do exist. Vladimir Grigorenko
is one of them. Ironically he is working
on
-
- Before
the icons I had been an ordinary engineer. I had a degree from Mechanics and
Math Department. I remember myself inventing and designing since my
childhood. For example, I designed a
funicular railway model out of my Grandma’s yarn and sewing machine, which got
me in a lot of trouble. And of course I
drew. When I was already serious about mathematics, I went to the class of The
Studio for Students taught by Michail Feodorovich Pushnoy, now
deceased. Since 1990 my works had been presented at the regional and Ukrainian exhibitions,
also in
- Why “thanks God”?
- Because they teach there only techniques, and one also needs to be taught how to think. Art is one’s individual world perception. As of techniques and materials… Of course one needs to know how to use them and master it, and… to forget about it right away.
Well, when I was studying history of art, I wondered why, for instance, Rublev, Michelangelo, and Matisse cannot be compared, however each of them is a genius. What is the criterion? Can the art be evaluated not only according to show business rules but according to the system applicable only in art? If such system does not exist, then everything becomes senseless. The only artist’s goal is to advertise and commercialize himself: the bigger advertisement - the more popular he is, the more popular – the more money he makes, the more money – the more popular, and so on.
While coming to this understanding, I tried, so to speak, to sort out things for myself in the world of icon painting. Now I realize that have not sorted out anything yet. Nevertheless I painted a few icons. Where do you go with an icon? Of course to Church. The priest asked me whether I had been baptized. No, I had not. He said that it needed to be done. Who needed it? Why? I decided to wait for about half a year. By then painting had become my only job and could not provide decent income. Art was wonderful but I had to make living, so I had to separate art from business. At times it was not quite legal; though back then, in 1992, nobody seemed to know what was legal and what was not. It was possible to make $10 in two hours and live of it for two weeks. But what art are you talking about after all this moneymaking…Feelings were accumulating inside, asked to get out, and something needed to be done with this situation, so I got baptized, and…nothing happened right away.
Eventually I was invited to Holly Transfiguration Cathedral to build iconostasis. I presented drawings in sketches. They were blessed to be used, but the work stumbled. It turned out that my iconostasis did not answer this Cathedral’s style. I consciously chose that design because, in my opinion, it needed to be in harmony not so much with architecture of the building but with the contents of the religion and the service that was served in this building. I saw there the Orthodox icons in Rublev or Dionisiy style. It felt more customary for us to pray before icons like those. To me they contain truth.
- They
say that there is more truth in the icon that people prayed before for a longer
time.
- We cannot add anything to the icon. No matter how long we pray before it. It is a board covered by paint but it is more than a board. It is also the image of God, and Lord is acting through an icon, through any icon.
Besides the sketches for the iconostasis I painted two big icons for the Royal Doors. But at that time the decision had already been made to reconstruct the Cathedral as it had looked before the revolution; and my icons are now in the 17th century church in the village Borisovka, the place of slaughter of Prince Boris. Icons always find their way to Church, no matter what the customer’s decision would be. They simply don’t have any other place of existence.
- Does
it bother you that icon painting serves you as a source of income?
- Not at all, “…for a worker is worthy of his food”(Mathew, 10:10). It is my job. I can paint an icon without being paid, and it would give me pleasure but I am not living in the monastery – I have two children that need to be provided for.
- Did
iconographers have to live in monasteries in old times?
- Not necessarily. Theophanes was not a monk. Dionisiy was a traveling artist. Icons are created with the help of the Holly Spirit. The rest is not that important.
- Do
you mean that Lord chose you?
- Yes, probably.
- Can
He deprive you of your ability to paint icons for some wrongdoings?
- I
guess, He may but a man is free, and God never takes this freedom away from
him, neither He makes him do things.
- Volodia, do you dislike the idea of separation of
Church in
- I
cannot say I dislike missionaries but I just don’t have anything to do with
them. As of the Church…There is only one
- If
you speak about church as a building, is God’s grace working only inside of it?
- “The
wind blows where it wishes” (John, 3:8), said about the Holly Spirit.
- Then
why do we need any specific church? If a
man believes in God, why does he need these limitations, this mediator?
- These
are neither limitations nor a mediator.
Church is called the Body of Christ.
Unfortunately, even going to church a person does not quite understand
everything. He seems to have come to
God, and here is a priest; and the person thinks that the priest will pray for
him. However the priest is not a mediator.
He is a servant of God. He has
the blessing from Him but does not transfer anything up there for us. We have to serve along with him in a prayer,
not just stand there without understanding of what is going on.
- Is
your wife also a believer?
- Yes.
- Did
you get her involved?
- She saw my example. I did not tell her, “Go, get baptized.” She did it consciously and the same way we had our children baptized.
- …and
by doing this deprived them their own choice.
- I
am the father and I am responsible for my children in many situations where
theoretically they could have had a choice.
- If
your children grow up and convert to Catholicism, will this be shocking to you?
- No,
it will not. When they grow up and
become adults, they will be free people and liable for their actions. They will also be responsible for their own
sins, and their children will be, so to speak, co-responsible for their
predecessors’ sins.
- Is
this fair?
- It
is obvious. We are effected
by our parent’ sins. If a child is born
deformed, and has not sinned yet, what is he punished for? For his parents’ sins.
- Now
the traditional question. Am I
responsible for the fact that Jews crucified Christ?
- You probably already noticed the shape of my profile.
- Not really…
- I have strong Jewish roots. They tried to push me around since my childhood. See, my nose is broken, but we got away from the subject. Could you please formulate your question again? Do you want to talk about anti-Semitism?
- Oh,
no. We are only talking about children’s
responsibility for their parents’ sins. Are descendants of fascists, KGB
killers, etc. responsible for their fathers and grandfathers?
- Yes, they are, but it is not irreversible. You can pray for them, repent, and expiate their sins.
- I
think that Orthodoxy is characterized by intolerance. Patriarch of
- From evil. Orthodoxy cannot be very intolerant because the Scriptures say, “Love your brother.” One cannot achieve much by prohibiting, but we should strive to keep the reputation of our Church high; then nobody will go to other missionaries. Orthodoxy has everything they have to offer; and if people turn to them, it is also ours, Orthodox Christians’ fault.
- Should Church be separated from state?
- Yes, by all means. Government authority means power, church does not use power of the world and politics, but acts through the power of the Holly Spirit. Unfortunately politicians cannot act without involving Church. For instance creation of the Patriarchy of Kiev is politics, when a separate state has to have a separate Church. What happened in 1917? At that time Church had not been headed by the Patriarch or Synod for quite some time. It was formally headed by the ober-procurator and started to loose its reputation. After having come to communion only once a year and receiving a note about being reliable citizens, the parishioners went out to rob cathedrals. If Church was free from authorities, the revolution probably would have not taken place in the same form.
- Why is schism so common in Christianity?
- If during the separation the ill is separated from the healthy, it should not be bad.
- And if the result is St. Bartholomew’s night?
- Just a moment. People that carried it out violated each and every commandment and by doing that separated themselves from Church. Church did not become any worse.
- Wasn’t
it the CPSU practice with its members? Communists may have been thieves and
killers but after convicted in court, they were expelled from the party, and
the Party itself was sinless, and still claims to be.
- Communists
are “amusing” people. They got a lot of
ideas from everywhere including religion.
A bad Christian is doing harm to himself by sinning. He is violating something that the Church was teaching about. He was warned – do not still, do not kill, and if he killed, it is his responsibility.
- Why
do you think the commandments are saying what NOT to do? Why don’t they tell us what to DO?
- They
actually do. It is said in the
Scriptures, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another”; and
everything that commandments do not prohibit is allowed. Love God and exercise your will.
- Did
you think about becoming a priest?
- No,
my service is different – I am painting icons. I do have the skill and enjoy
doing this.
- Do
you paint icons all the time or only if you are commissioned for a certain job?
- Of
course have a job is great, but right now I don’t have one, and I am still
painting. I can’t help it. I start feeling so miserable – God forbid.
- If
the customer says that he does not quite like the icon and asks to change
something, do you do it?
- I
do not let the icon into the world if I see that it can still be improved. If I
let it go, I don’t have anything else to improve there, I have done everything
I could.
- Is
an icon always a piece of art? Why have
the names of Theophanes the Greek and Andrey Rublev reached our times
and the names of hundreds of other iconographers have not, though their icons
are known to us?
- It
is enough. An artist never puts his
signature on the icon because it was not only he who was painting it.
- I
think that Rembrandt also created his paintings with the help of God…
- Artists
with the help of God depict the earthly world that they can see, while
Iconographers depict the Heavenly world, the one they cannot see by
themselves. It only can be shown to them.
- Does
it take long for you to create an icon?
- Yes,
technological process is quite complicated.
I make the paints and the boards myself.
- How
do you prepare paints?
- Out
of minerals: malachite, lapis lazuli, iron ore, etc. mixed on the egg base.
- Where
did you learn these recipes?
- They taught me at the University – they taught
me how to learn, so I am learning, reading books, conducting experiments.
- Where
do you get the minerals?
- I
buy them from geologists.
- And
what about the boards? What kind of wood
do you use?
- The
best are bass, alder, aspen, preferably kept dry
for about fifteen years. There is no
place to get boards of this quality, so I buy them from a quick drying facility.
- Would
the icons have shorter life because of that?
- Nothing
can be guaranteed. I have carpenter
skills but it would probably be better if a woodwork specialist made the
boards. The specialist though says, “Ï would rather make a door because it takes
about the same amount of time and pays much more money.”
- Are
there many believers?
- There
are no people that do not believe in anything at all. It’s just some believe in brownies, White
Brotherhood, some in UFO, etc., and some believe in God. My life experience
tells me that there is no other way for us, because without faith in God
everything falls apart: relationships, culture, life itself. We will come to a
very poor end without faith into God.
- I
think everything is already pretty bad – wars are going on, there was
- It
is not quite so. We are changing, and
also becoming more kind. It is not that
evil is increasing in the world, but evil and kindness become more polarized.
When there is more good in the world - there is more evil; the good becomes
more active, and the evil become more active too. There will be Apocalypses
when everything in the world gets separated into pure good and evil.
- It
means we are steadily moving to the end of the world?
- Yes,
we are, and we were warned about it.
- Then
I will ask you (not my own) but a wonderful question, favorite since our school
years – what is the meaning of life?
- And I have a wonderful, favorite (also not mine) answer: the meaning of life is in the understanding the meaning of death. Seriously, we have to make a choice where we are. ‘Stained by the sin and bitten by the snake’, are we on the side of good or evil?
- Yes, easier said than done…
The interview was written by A.Zinoviev.
Translated by Marianna Bordovsky
August 25, 2002